I wrote the following as part of my recent post on homeschooling, then decided to take it out because it was going off track regarding my main point, which was just talking about how nice it was to speak to minded homeschooling parents, and to express my appreciative feeling that homeschoolers are incredibly nice people. Instead I put it to the side as a material for a future post, but will share it now before responding to some questions on my last post because I think it’s relevant for readers to realize this was written as part of the original post and before any questions. (It was an oversight on my part that I removed the following without significantly editing the only paragraph remaining, which would have made my intent more clear.)
(My statements) >>A homeschooling friend in a recent email said that we can’t make it harder for people to homeschool by talking about ideals, but I disagree. Is there really a value in promoting home education without talking about the values behind the choice? I guess some people would say that values don’t matter much, that the only difference is the location where the schooling takes place, but I really can’t get on board with that way of thinking. My way and your way to home educate won’t – and shouldn’t – look alike. I don’t think there’s one right way to do things, just the way that is right for your family.
But I don’t believe that making things easy for people is necessarily being kind to them – parents today tend to be disempowered and fearful of their abilities to meet the needs of their child/ren. That gives rise to the constant comparisons of their children to their schooled peers, focus on if the kids are ‘up to par, and their focus on curriculum as if it’s the curriculum that will give them guaranteed results.
Sure, it’s easy to provide curriculum and lists and classes for these homeschoolers – that’s what they’re asking for because that’s what they think they need, and they’ll be very grateful for it. But isn’t it just as valuable – more valuable, actually – to take the time to help them think about what their educational philosophy is? Or to help them develop it? To talk about a deeper and more meaningful way to approach learning and living than recreating school in your dining room?<<
Okay, end of those thoughts, which I had planned to flesh out in more detail before sharing here as its own post. Read the past post with these comments added in between the second and third paragraphs if you’re inclined to see how it was originally written. Now on to some comments from the post.
(Binah said)>> I don’t know if I would call homeschooling a “parallel academic choice”, but I not sure I see much value in promoting homeschooling or a particular way of homeschooling dogmatically. Hate to be so relativistic, but I can only do what works for me, and others should do what works for them. If that involves sending their children to school, signing up for a cyber academy charter school, or using school-in-a-box type curriculum, I don’t see the need to bemoan that state of affairs.<<
Agreed. I believe that home education is at the core about individualizing the process to meet your needs. But I want to address what I think is a common response to those expressing their belief that there is a better or worse way to do something, the assumption that they’re judgmental (as seen in the choice of words ‘dogmatically’ and ‘bemoan).
I’ve often noticed that those who have standards that are different than the collective norm are accused of being judgmental, regardless of how cautiously and respectfully they express themselves. To be accurate, only if the standards are perceived as being higher is it viewed as a problem, because we don’t refer to those who push their values on us who lower the standard as judgmental. Somehow, that’s okay.
There are a number of precepts and principles that I believe to be worthy of emulation and try to integrate them into my life, as a spouse, parent, friend, and individual. Even though I’m frequently not successful in integrating them to the degree I would like, I still find inspiration in having ideals and something more to strive for. If those from whom I learned about these ideas hadn’t written or discussed them, I would unquestionably have set the bar in my life much lower and experienced significantly less happiness as a result.
To refrain from sharing one’s ideas and to remove ideals from discussion is to remove any striving, to prevent people from knowing about other options that they may want to explore. So many parents begin homeschooling knowing very little about it, basically superimposing a school structure on their home lives. Wouldn’t it be a kindness to share the exciting possibilities and options with them, to let them know that there might be other ways that would bring more joy and delight into their lives, rather than just smile and nod, and let them think that there’s nothing better out there than what they’re doing – because we don’t want to be seen as judgmental??
We easily forget that often people are making choices without knowing that there are options to what they’ve chosen. This is true of homeschooling, and of many other areas as well. An approach to marriage, work, parenting, money management – all of these are often determined by our past experience. And when our experience is unhealthy or simply limited, we don’t grow beyond that without getting a glimpse that there’s something more, something that could make our life better.
(Binah said)>>Are you concerned with potential future affects on all homeschoolers’ freedoms as cyber schooling and other one-size-fits-all approaches become more popular? I think that is a very valid concern.<<
Yes, I am. Attendees of some cyber schools don’t realize their programs aren’t homeschooling; they are registered as public school school students learning at home. This is a legal definition, not my personal opinion. (This isn’t true of all cyber schools, however.) Those who are enrolled in cyber schools tend to be comfortable with the school system and its demands, and their values and goals often conflict with many homeschoolers. (The reasons for that are material for a long discussion.) Further complicating matters is that many of these cyberschoolers will refer to themselves as homeschoolers, which is inaccurate and misleading, and they don’t even realize that they’re misrepresenting themselves. Home educators have worked hard to establish the legal rights we now have, which could easily be jeopardized by cyberschoolers. Much has been written about this concern in home education magazines (for those who are interested in learning more, the columns of Larry and Susan Kaseman in Home Education Magazine are worth reading – I believe you can find past columns online).
(Malkie said)>>As for this new trend of people taking the “homeschool” label when their kids just need a year off from school. Obviously I mind people using the term “homeschool” to mean “neglect” (or recently in the news here, abuse). But something else that really troubles me is that those kids then go back into the school world with the label “homeschooler” on them, and are NOTHING like homeschoolers. Half the time they haven’t even detoxed! Especially here in Israel, where there aren’t that many of us, and the first one you meet, or believe you meet, makes a lasting impression. They make things harder for those of us who do put in the effort for our kids, and I resent it.<<
This is unfortunately something I’m all too familiar with, and this was reflected in my comments in the last post. People tend to think if you’re in an area with a number of other homeschoolers, that’s a clear advantage. But there are disadvantages, too. When homeschooling becomes more common, some people use this as an excuse for not educating their children. In my community, the religious schools (which previously would have thought long and hard before telling a student to leave) now tell problem students and their parents to ‘homeschool’. But many of these kids and parents have no inclination to homeschool, don’t want to homeschool, and have no plans to change the dynamic they’ve enacted until this point. This leads to a problem of truancy. And that leads to a problem that these kids, who call themselves ‘homeschoolers’ but are actually nothing of the sort, negatively impact the positive image that homeschoolers have worked hard to earn.
Fortunately one local program that previously catered to ‘homeschooled’ kids has now decided to officially call itself a school, a move I’m personally very happy with. Now the kids who go there won’t be considered homeschoolers by the community, which the majority of them never were to start with (the parents and the kids would agree with that).
A person doesn’t become a homeschooler soley by being out of school for a year (this was in part what was referred by the comment in my last post that there are differences between those who are homeschooling and homeschoolers). I don’t appreciate hearing people claim that homeschooling doesn’t work because they tried it for a short period and were miserable, particularly when it’s clear that important steps weren’t taken or there were outside contributing factors that badly influenced the experience which were independent of/not caused by homeschooling.
That’s not because I demand that everyone love homeschooling – I’ve said again and again that it’s not for everyone (though I do believe that when we individualize our approach for each child, then it can work for each child). But when someone goes back into the system as if they’re a representative of homeschooling, but they aren’t, then again, homeschoolers as a group/homeschooling as a concept end up unfairly tarnished.
(Binah said)>>Anytime something becomes popularized and mainstream, the newer proponents of that thing, whether that thing is homeschooling or punk rock, may not share the same values and experiences as the older ones. I am not sure this is a process that can be avoided. Is there any value in getting concerned about this normal process? I don’t know. It reminds me a little of my angst as a teenager over some obscure band that became popular, leading me to claim that they had “sold out”.<<
That’s a good point. But yes, I believe there’s a purpose to holding on to a clear view of what your principles are, regardless of what those around you do or don’t do. And I think the dumbing down of our society both morally and intellectually has in part been aided by those who don’t want to judge and don’t want to set any standards because it will make people uncomfortable.
Avivah
Great clarifications. This post adds a lot to where you were going with the previous related one. I often feel like I am walking on egg-shells when the topic of home schooling comes up in my sphere. Most people believe that if I say anything positive about our family’s experience, it is meant to “shove it down their throat.” Nothing could be further from the truth. I actually try to lay low on this topic and only go out on a limb when someone asks from a place of genuine interest. Unfortunately, it is just not worth the ruffled feathers. But I wish people could be more open because I can imagine home schooling being a good path for several families I know, but they don’t know enough to even consider it as a viable option.
Avivah, this is a great post. When you have time (I know, hard to come by) would you please write about the journey/path you took to get you to your current homeschooling philosophy? My oldest is only 7 k’ah and we’ve all always been home together. I’m still reading/researching and changing my focus/goals/philosophy. Thanks for your inspiration.
Sing it, sister!
Suggesting that the ideology behind homeschooling “confuses” parents is an insult to all of us. Also, I only began homeschooling after I discovered those very ideological underpinnings. I didn’t want school in my living room and I didn’t know of any viable alternative. So keep talking ideology, keep talking values, keep talking principles. They matter!
At least those all matter to me.
Your article is great 🙂
Of course values matter! If you want to let people know about the value of a thing, though, it needs to be done in a way that others can be mekabel the message you are sending. This is a basic principal in halacha; we don’t rebuke when we know that our audience isn’t able to hear our message.
If people view simple statements of personal belief or even fact (!) as judgmental, then there is little one can do. I don’t think it is necessary to censor oneself in these types of matters. On the other hand, general complaints or concerns about groups of people without any concrete suggestions are just venting or preaching to the choir, so to speak. That may be appropriate at times, but it is not what I’d call sharing values or enlightening people about other options.
One thing I dislike about the discussion I’ve heard in this vein *in other places* is that there seems to be an assumption that if a person is a newer homeschooler who has chosen a more regimented approach, then it must be because that person didn’t really think about things much and is simply trying to recreate school in a different location. As far as I can tell, there has always been a large contingent of homeschoolers who have a school-at-home approach. It seems to be a popular choice amongst conservative members of the majority religion in the US, for example, who primarily eschew public school to escape the secular worldview often presented there.
Certainly, a number of newer “homeschoolers” who have signed up for programs like the K12 charter schools may not be aware of the other options. Even in that case, I feel confident that the vast majority of those parents have agonized over the decision to pull their kids out of a B&M school. They may be coming from a completely different place than someone who started homeschooling out of interest in the lifestyle or belief in that educational model. They may have serious financial problems or a child or two with special needs or issues that not being met in the schools. Parents like this can have their eyes opened to other ways of doing things, but just being concerned in general about trends amongst homeschoolers doesn’t accomplish that. I think more discussion of alternatives would, however, be helpful. I have heard many times about families who initially chose to use lots of bought curriculum or a cyber school, but eventually grew away from that into a much more eclectic approach as they gained confidence and a sense about what works for their individual children.
As far as your experiences in the community with homeschoolers who aren’t really homeschoolers, including troubled kids with little guidance and so on, I can’t really relate, since I’ve never met any other Jewish homeschoolers IRL who weren’t enrolled in one cyber school or another. It sounds frustrating. In my area, the schools are going out of their way to try get homeschoolers to enroll or re-enroll in school, not the other way around.
In any case, your earlier post was really about the lovely visit and connection you had with the homeschooling family at the self-defense class. Sharing your observations with them and feeling understood was no doubt a validating experience.
Shoshana – it’s like walking on eggshells very often even with homeschoolers to try to discuss any concerns or ideas that are beyond the immediate experience of those you’re talking to!
R – that would either be a very short or very long post, lol! I consider it a process that I’m always engaged in.
Malkie – glad to have you in the choir, lol!
LN – thanks! I’m PG going to post it here in the next couple of days.
Binah – I wasn’t rebuking anyone, so the guideline about giving tochacha isn’t directly relevant here. And the reality is that there’s no possible way to consistently communicate clearly to large numbers of people of different backgrounds without periodic misunderstandings. It’s amazing to me how little negative feedback I get on my blog, BH, and is a credit to the quality of people who are reading.
b) I suppose that whether what I write is considered venting or a peripheral comment is dependent on who’s reading it, aside from my intent. I think I’m entitled to vent if I feel like it, though it’s not my general way of expressing myself. However, I wasn’t venting in this case. I made an introductory comment to explain why it was so nice to speak to someone like-minded about long term trends who has been advising homeschoolers for a long time. These aren’t things that can be discussed with most homeschoolers since they don’t yet have the breadth of personal experience – not mentioning that would have left out a critical point in my post. So someone doesn’t like that I have concerns about that, or are insulted that I think someone homeschooling for almost 20 years has more perspective on the issues than they do? Fine. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. But it’s unfair to suggest that on a personal blog a person can’t mention their own opinion unless it’s perfectly articulated and guaranteed to be received by every reader with a smile! 🙂
c) I probably speak to more frum homeschoolers (current, past, or potential) every year than most people in this country, literally. I can say with confidence that while parents think long and hard about taking their children out of school, the majority don’t initially think hard about the model of education in school and look for better alternatives that are more suitable to the home. (Obviously there’s still a good number of parents who do think about this from the very beginning, which is why I said ‘majority’, not ‘everyone’.) There’s a very high rate of burnout with parents who follow this approach, which isn’t a judgment but a concern. That’s why I try to help people realize there are alternatives, so that they can ENJOY homeschooling.
d) While I appreciate your suggestions as to how I can be of more service to those interested in homeschooling (and will keep them in mind), I believe you’re overlooking that there are over 150 detailed posts on homeschooling right here on this blog in which I’ve addressed a number of issues. That’s independent of discussion boards for religious Jewish women on which I’ve responded to questions, and also independent of the best known listserve for Orthodox families where I have posted for seven years now many, many detailed posts. I believe that I’ve said a number of things that were of practical value, and it almost seems that all of that is overlooked because you didn’t agree with two sentences in a past post. 🙁
Again, of course you are entitled to make whatever comments on your blog you like. Taken as merely an account of a nice interaction you had with another long-term homeschooling family, there is nothing at all objectionable about the post. Nonetheless, I had to point out that after adding up some of the comments in the post (the topics of discussion that you mentioned having with the other family and your children’s comments about “people who homeschool” verses “homeschoolers”), it ended up partially sounding a little like a rant against new homeschoolers. As you say, it is impossible to communicate with large numbers of people, each coming to the post with different points of view and experiences, without the occasional misunderstanding. I have no issues with the fact that you have concerns, nor do I expect that my point of view on homeschooling will be regarded in the same way as someone with a much longer experience with it!
If there was no offense taken from my comments which were, as you wrote, coming from a place of sincerity, then I wonder why it was implied that I am part of the anti-judgmental trend which has contributed to the moral and intellectual decline of society. If it is appropriate for you to write of your concerns about trends in homeschooling, then why shouldn’t I respond to those posts? I don’t intend my comments to be negative, attacking you personally; I apologize if they sound that way. Seriously, please be mochel me, if that is the case.
I had gotten the impression from the original post, combined with a series of posts on Torch-D, that this is something that you have spent a fair amount of metal energy worrying about. Your usual approach to things is positive and practical; I wondered what purpose it served to have these discussions, which on Torch-D, resulted in a slew of posts from newer homeschoolers justifying their educational approaches.
Maybe I should have just taken the post here and those on Torch-D as something that was meant for “insiders” to commiserate about the trends in homeschooling today and attached no significance to my and other newer homeschoolers reactions to them. When you justified the post, however, by saying that it is important to talk about values, I again thought that the intended audience included newer homeschoolers of the type you discuss. This lead to my comments about rebuke, since I felt the tone of the posts was really only appropriate as commiseration amongst experienced homeschoolers.
I guess it isn’t clear, but I enjoy reading your blog on a regular basis. I think I’ve read everything all the way back! I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your posts, as well as the other services you render to the homeschooling community, such as organizing the conference and responding to personal questions. Again, I really appreciate all the you do, and I hope that taking issue with a part of a post of yours does not make me unappreciative.
I’m sorry it sounded like I was ranting; it’s good to be aware that I’ve said things that are received differently than how they’re intended so I can keep that in mind in the future.
If there was no offense taken from my comments which were, as you wrote, coming from a place of sincerity, then I wonder why it was implied that I am part of the anti-judgmental trend which has contributed to the moral and intellectual decline of society. If it is appropriate for you to write of your concerns about trends in homeschooling, then why shouldn’t I respond to those posts?
Of course you’re welcome to respond with your thoughts, regardless of whether you think in lock step with me! 😆 I haven’t censored anything or ignored your statements, have I? I’m shocked that you felt what I wrote was personally directed and didn’t realize that these statements tied in directly with points made earlier in the post. I was making a point about the place of values being necessary in every area of life, and to eliminate that (which has been done in the name of political correctness in many areas) leads to social decay. I wasn’t chas v’shalom implying that you were a representative of that decay!
I had gotten the impression from the original post, combined with a series of posts on Torch-D, that this is something that you have spent a fair amount of metal energy worrying about.
No, this isn’t something I spend much mental energy worrying about, lol! My life is pretty full so this certainly doesn’t occupy front stage. I do think it’s an issue periodically worth raising with homeschoolers to stimulate discussion of the ideas at hand.
I’d prefer that you respond to what I write here based on what is written here. Since you’ve mentioned Torch-d, after 9 + years of membership there I’ve noticed that most of the experienced homeschooling parents have stopped sharing their perspective or advice there because they don’t want to be seen as judgmental. It’s a much different list now than it was for years, when there were really interesting active discussions with agreements and disagreements from all sides, and everyone accepting that we were all entitled to our own approach and didn’t think negatively of those who did otherwise. New homeschoolers were able to learn a lot and gain inspiration. Now there’s no judgment, there’s no disagreement – but there’s also virtually no sharing of ideas anymore. Maybe you don’t feel that’s a loss, but as someone whose life was enriched by all of those discussions, I do.
BH I’ve been able to help a number of people who have considered homeschooling or who were homeschooling, and feel this is an area where H-shem has given me the unique ability to help the Jewish community where there is no official recognition of homeschooling as positive or even viable. Maybe I’ve turned some people off with my approach to education or left them thinking I feel superior to them because I’ve ‘found the light’ and look down on those who homeschool differently than me. That certainly wasn’t my intent, and I’ve done the best I can to communicate appropriately and respectfully. I’ll probably continue to offend some people, and while it’s unfortunate, the other option is to eliminate the issue totally by retreating from the ‘arena’ (writing, blogging, organizing), which while relieving me of a lot of time and effort, would also mean I wasn’t doing what I could to help others in an area where there isn’t much help to be found.
Thank you so much for engaging me in this discussion. I definitely don’t think you should stop writing what you feel for fear of offending others. I am also glad to hear that you don’t consider my reaction to your post as a symptom of social decay! LOL. (I got that idea from the fact that you quoted a couple words that I used in my first reply.) Also, I did not think the overall tone of the original post was ranting, but only some parts, that stuck out to me, and seemed, at the time, relevant to me, gave me that feeling.
I got a call this morning from a local parent who wanted to know some things about how I educate my kids. This is one of the first times people have called me for advice on these issues. I imagine this is the kind of thing that happens to you all the time. It’s pretty amazing that you do that on a regular basis– I was on the phone for close to an hour! Maybe if I had had the same experience that you have had, I would be more concerned about the direction other people are taking, especially if people were regularly experiencing bad outcomes for lack of thought, planning, and support. And, for the record, I actually agree with many of your concerns (once I read about them more in detail), although in my daily life, I do not have the experience and energy to think much past my own homeschooling and parenting challenges.
Just wait, before you know it you’ll be fielding calls on a regular basis! Then you’ll understand why I had to found the Torah Home Education Conference – as a self-defense measure – because I couldn’t spend an hour with every person who wanted to talk to me! 😆