>>your 16 yr old son…. how does he learn gemara and other things 16 yr old yeshiva boys should be learning?<<
He learns them pretty much same way any other boy does; the main difference is his location.
>>is it really in the best interest of a yeshiva age boy to be home all day instead of in yeshiva?<<
Historically, I think the answer is that yes, boys were taught by their fathers or in small groups by a hired teacher for short periods of time each day. Large yeshivas are a fairly new development in the way things have been done for generations.
But regardless of history, I can only determine what’s in the best interest of my child at this time. Every person has to make a well-thought out decision for themselves. There is no perfect solution – the yeshivas have challenges but also there are advantages. Homeschooling has advantages and challenges. That’s why it’s so important to think about this, to make a thorough cost benefit analysis of the situation. Doing that requires a parent to really think about what the true strengths and weaknesses of each situation are. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that following the well-trodden path means that there are no problems and that you’re guaranteed a certain result – you couldn’t be further from the truth.
Having said that, I think what’s far more important than where they learn, is how they learn, why they learn, and what they do with it. I’m interested in my child’s character development and intellectual development, both of which I believe are better served by homeschooling. I’m not impressed by bench warming. I want my children to develop a relationship with H-shem (G-d) and find a Torah life full of meaning and joy, not to be religious robots who do it because everyone else does. The reasons I choose to homeschool are at the root of my approach.
I think that speaking to high school aged boys and girls will be very enlightening for most parents as to what is actually going on in our schools. What the adults think is happening and what the students experience are often two entirely different things. (If you can’t speak to high schoolers, at least speak to their parents. They’ll also have experience to share.) My approach isn’t to slam the schools but rather to focus on the positives of my experience, so I won’t detail things that concern me about school.
I’ll generalize and say that good middos aren’t generally developed by throwing together a bunch of immature pubescent boys for many hours a day with minimal adult guidance. The hours are very long, and it’s a small percentage of boys who are really shteiging all day long. A disproportionate number of kids are burnt out and going through the motions. And mainly what’s necessary to get by in school is to look the part, act the part – not to be the part.
These issues are recognized by educators as growing in severity all the time, and they’re searching for answers. So far the answers I’ve seen seem to have a common theme – try to make the school environment more home like (ie, more warmth, personal attention, discussion about issues of concern). The yeshivas will do whatever they think is best, and so will I. I have a responsibility to my children to focus my energy to actively raise them as I think H-shem wants me to. And for us that means homeschooling.
Avivah
Someone just referred me to your blog and this is the first post I saw. I love it! I am totally in agreement with you.
I home-schooled my children from beginning to end (Grade 12). Then my son went away to Yeshiva where he flourished. There were unique circumstances, but I had most of the same reasons you stated, and then some.
We were not near a suitable school and there was no way I was sending my children away from home. I didn’t just breed them like an animal, to shove them out of the nest into the general society as soon as they were weaned.
People warned me mostly about socialization. We wanted them function well in society, so we chose social situations for them to be in. Not all of them were even ideal. We knew they had to interact, just not all day, all night.
As it turned out, they are ALL extremely able to function socially. They don’t just function with their own narrow age group and never did. No sullen or shy withdrawal from anyone who wasn’t “one of them”. They learned to take people as people, relating to any age group. They still do. That is one of the things that is said about them now they are grown. They are the focus of any group they find themselves in because they are so at ease with themselves, well informed and interested in others. To tell you the truth, I wasn’t even sure it would turn out so well.
I have nothing against an organized school system, but you are totally correct that historically, anyone who DID receive an education was taught by a tutor or in a very small group. That way individual needs could be met (hopefully) I used to tell my children that they were like royal princes and princesses or nobility because they had private tutors (me, my husband and piano/voice/violin teachers.
The classroom education system, no matter how well-intentioned or hard it tries, cannot hope to develop every child according to their own strengths, weaknesses, talents, and interests. Of necessity, they must reduce the level of learning and even behavior to the “lowest common denominator”. That means the ones who need help have a hard time, or fall through the cracks-and may start to make trouble to relieve their frustrations. The ones who need an enriched program and more of a challenge are short-changed-and may start to make trouble to relieve their boredom. That is not the kind of mathematical odds I wanted for my little princes and princesses. I did not want them to become mindless robots either, just mouthing the party line and looking at each other with suspicion if they ever expressed any individuality.
When are we going to wake up and realize that not all boys can learn full time (mine could, in case you’re wondering, so I’m not just justifying myself here). Why should they feel like failures if they actually have to learn a trade or profession? Not all girls are going to marry a man who learns all the time. Nor are they going to have endless flows of cash to fund the luxurious lifestyle that most aspire to. HOW are they going to pass it along to their children?
I’m so scared for our society! I hope that when we are finally FORCED down to earth, that we survive the fall.
Moshiach is the answer? So we just forge merrily ahead on our own path until some “miracle” happens to rescue us? I’m not sure if that’s his function.
Having vented sufficiently now, let me say that I DO see the wonderful people who come out of the very school systems I was worrying myself over above. Wonderful-kind-dedicated, on and on. No one can or does deny that. And yes there are sad failures in homeschool situations. Back to the original author who stated that each person has to make a thorough study of what is best and what is possible for them. And daven night and day.
It’s so nice to hear from someone who has homeschooled kids through the end of high school – something very unusual in the frum world. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!
Great post and great reply. Lots to think about.
Technical question — does your son have a chavrusa he learns with? Or does he learn by himself?
I’m also interested in the more technical aspects. I get asked this question from others but since my son is only in first grade, I don’t feel a need to respond. But, I am interested in how you taught them and what ages. What about mishnayos?
Yehudis-both. This balance has shifted every year. When he was younger, he did very little learning on his own. Now he easily spends several hours a day learning on his own.
Sara- we start mishnayos at around age 10. Dh learned with ds16 when he was that age; now ds16 and ds10 go to shul together every morning, and ds16 learns mishnayos with his younger brother for about an hour – hour and a half after shul before they come home for breakfast.
I hope you don’t find this disrespectful. What would you have done if your husband wasn’t able to learn with him?
Oh, and thank you for responding so quickly.
Don’t worry, I don’t find the question disrespectful at all!
I’d find someone else who could. We’ve sometimes hired rebbes/tutors over the years – dh is very capable (and ds16 said his father is his favorite rebbe/chavrusa), but he’s not around very often so we have never been able to rely on him as a sole resource.
There are also online options for those who don’t have local/in person resources to draw on.